Mar 21, 2019
Your Innovation Podcast. This is the 22nd episode of the Driving Eureka! Podcast. Segment 1: You Change the World When You Change Your Mind; Segment 2: You Have to Change the Person First; Segment 3: Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy. Subscribe to learn how to Find Filter and Fast Track Big Ideas.
The Driving Eureka Podcast - Episode #22
Theme of this Episode is Change
How Will You Frame Your Mind
Culture or Person? Regardless, the Person Can Improve and Influence
Innovation Engineering is about the People
Take Responsibility for Your Own Development
Driving Eureka! Book Segment
The Bill Conway Conversation
Using Your Sphere of Influence
The Frauds of Change - Move on From
Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy
Change Your Mind to Transform Whisk(e)y
A Keynote Message - Deaf Ears?
Jack and Jimmy - A Downfall
Big Companies Kill Companies They Buy and Kill Them
Craft Whisk(e)y Cocktail - The Italian Manhattan
The Birth of Five Woods Rye
Rules on Whisk(e)y Buying
Tripp: [00:00:01] Welcome to the Driving Eureka! podcast where we share ideas and advice for helping you find filter and fast track big ideas. Hi I'm Tripp Babbitt adviser to global organizations on the Deming philosophy and host of the Deming Institute podcast.
Doug: [00:00:23] And I'm Doug Hall inventor speaker teacher and whiskey maker. I'm also the founder of the Eureka! Ranch and author of the driving Eureka book.
Tripp: [00:00:32] This is the Driving Eureka! podcast episode number 22 our theme this week is change and it's actually one of the quotes I put out on my website Doug which is if you change your thinking you change the results that you see so on changing your mind. I mean everything is really about change isn't it.
Doug: [00:00:56] Yeah. And then this came I was in New York recently for the for the show with the community colleges league of innovation League for Innovation and community colleges.
Doug: [00:01:06] And I went to see the show Kinky Boots the Broadway musical and which is a great fun show. And the big lesson at the last song is you change the world when you change your mind and which is sort of a theme we've had last couple of weeks here.
Doug: [00:01:24] You know you have that mindset of curiosity you're going to bump into new ideas when you have a mindset of experimentation you're going to bump into stuff and you mindset of learning. Then then when something doesn't work you just say hey that's cool. I learned something and call it discovery collaboration responsibility. I don't care what it is but it's a matter of how you make a choice to is your mindset going to be one that is to quote Norman Vincent Peale positive thinking or negative thinking. And when we think positively when we think towards the future we unleash the power of the brain to do just truly amazing things. And when we think negatively we just become a wimpy whining huddled masses.
Doug: [00:02:20] I mean I mean that's what I'm talking about. It's how am I going to approach life. How am I going to approach life right now. What is the framing that I'm gonna take because it's just stuff but our mind interprets it any this sees opportunity or dread.
Tripp: [00:02:41] So so as you work with with different organizations just your feel what is there what kind of what is their thinking is there kind of a set on an individual basis this is on a cultural basis or both. How do how do you see it.
Doug: [00:02:56] I think it is primarily I think a lot of individuals will blame their culture and there is some truth to that but I've worked for the world's biggest corporations. I did 10 years time inside the Soap Factory Procter and Gamble and I maintained my mindset even in a world of bureaucracy and you know blue blooded ness if you would they you are not a prisoner to your organization. It's a mindset that you've taken. And I think you know throughout organizations you find people that can get stuff done. You find stuff people doing amazing things you go Well how do they get it. Well they've chosen to have that optimistic mindset. They've chosen to going to work that way. And and that's it that's it. So I think it really is inside the person I think. I think it's a personal thing mostly. There is some element of the culture makes it easier or harder. But it comes from within. I mean it comes from within you.
Tripp: [00:04:06] Well with so many organizations that do have you know cultures that are facilitating where you have two thirds of the people are not engaged in their work. That was from a Gallup poll that was out there. You know those types of types of things I know and I get what you're saying. If you have a that your mindset is set anyway no matter what the culture is you know you're going to find a way but it does have an impact on the masses isn't it easier to. Well I'm not going to say it's easier.
Doug: [00:04:37] But yeah let's flip let's flip the two options. Yeah. Yeah. I have a mindset of optimism and discovery and curiosity and I'm going to drive new things and I'm in a culture that doesn't support it. Ok that's option one option two. I have a culture that supports this but I don't have any desire or any curiosity myself. Which one's going to have the bigger chance of success. I'd say the first one a change comes from within you we use the culture as excuses for not taking responsibility for our lives. We use it as an excuse. That's my view. Because it's become easy to us.
Doug: [00:05:23] You know you start out on the job and you're a volcano of new ideas. Then you learn about all of this stuff and you either give up or you figure out a way to make things happen.
Tripp: [00:05:34] Yeah I mean there's part of me and you know my my pull on the Deming side in a night and and this is where I'm gonna challenge that a bit which is 94 percent of the performance of an organization coming from the system and you know 6 percent not just the individual but certainly associated with the individual. So how do you how do you square that.
Doug: [00:05:58] I mean and I give you that ok. Regards to the overall organization. Yes but I have a as Kevin Cahill his grandson says I have a sphere of influence my life is not determined by the stock price I work in X department trying to do things and I can find joy in work in my area by the mindset that I take towards that. Words don't boil the ocean don't make me responsible for the dance stupid board of directors and the dumb CEO. That's not my problem but I can take charge of my life right now because I have a sphere of influence which is always much bigger than people realize that you can change your mindset in the way you work right now and that's why with our with our fundamentals course so we teach that you can take online or in person our whole thing. When we took and flipped Tripp from teaching while we'll do the culture if you want but when we took a flip to empowering people enabling individuals to be able to think quicker smarter more creatively to help them do it. It was just just mind blowing the impact that you had when you were able to just ignite people and say Stop whining for Christ sakes let's do something let's do something with our lives.
Tripp: [00:07:18] Yeah. It makes me wonder though if you know some people for instance that would take the class they still run up against the system and they may get to the point where they just say oh you know the heck with thiss. That's right. I don't believe it somewhere else and that is why.
Doug: [00:07:35] Well I have an option too. Yeah that's an option too but that's why we tell them when they're starting to focus on where they're going to apply the stuff because we we coach them through applying it is we say let's take something that's in your sphere of influence what's the things where you can control it. You know it because that's where you do that. And it builds your build your confidence to build your capability and then you do it again do it again. Then next thing you know people in next department over I mean we've seen it over and over again. People the next department are reaching over go man. That's kind of fun. How do you guys get to do that cool stuff. Can we do that. Oh yeah sure. This is how we did take this course read this book you know whatever it is we can do that too.
Tripp: [00:08:13] So this is this is kind of the the the process of creating critical mass. I guess I could see I could see that that's certainly a longer process. But I also see nowadays with especially the mindset of people today almost being individual contractors just saying yeah I could do this at my company but you know that's just bureaucracy I don't want to fight I'm going to start an idea you know on my own and I'll start to build a business off of that. I mean I I know that would be an option.
Doug: [00:08:43] And I'm agnostic to that. I mean our mission is to change the world by enabling innovation by everyone everywhere every day. Right. I'm here to do the people we're about people you know if if a CEO wants to get a lot of their peoples I'm good. But we work for people we change lives by changing people. When you change the mindset of a person that's how you make amazing things happen. Corporations don't think people think corporations don't get patents. A person gets a patent and assigns it to the company power to the people is what we're about. You know that's what old hippies like us do.
Tripp: [00:09:26] Speak for yourself. OK well let's continue this conversation with but let's move slowly.
Doug: [00:09:31] There's one thing I will say and so I started out with the Kinky Boots quote you changed the world when you change your mind. And and you know the secret to changing your life truly is. I honestly truly in my heart of hearts believe that it's about change you might just take money or contacts or resources. It requires taking responsibility for how you're thinking. I mean if you think about it you are the leader of what is right.
Doug: [00:10:02] Your boss your partner community are not the leader of you or of what's right for you. And when you have the mindset of the bigger person you generate energy around you in support of the change that's needed in your world and the broader world as Hamilton sings in the play by the same name I just recently saw it in the song non-stop he's talking to bird at the time he said Hey what are you waiting for Woody what do you stand for.
Tripp: [00:10:41] Well he was a Burr wound up being a guy that in essence kind of wasted his life. At the end after after shooting Hamilton. So he kind of lost lost his way.
Doug: [00:10:56] Yeah kind of lost it.
Tripp: [00:11:00] There was all that was kind of a sad story actually a guy goes from being vice president to there. But
Tripp: [00:11:09] It's time now for the Driving Eureka! book segment with author and inventor Doug Hall. Ok well let's move to the drive in Eureka.
Tripp: [00:11:24] Book segment and it's a continuation basically the conversation that we have and it's this conversation they had apparently with with Bill Conway once you share with us about that.
Doug: [00:11:35] So I was doing it with Bill Conway. He's the first Fortune 500 CEO to bring Deming back from Japan to work with him and he told me that Dr. Deming had told him that it was important to work with the willing and that. And I challenged Kevin Cahill Dr. Demings and said leader of the Deming Institute. What advice would you give to an employees working for a leader who is unwilling to learn or change. And I'm going to read this quote because I think I think it's important and this is an excerpt from the book. There's a wonderful Q and A with Kevin Cahill in the book that's. It's worth the price of the book just to read it because you know so much of damning is written about in the past of where he was that he can become a museum figure for not careful and the interview with Kevin brings to life today's world and things like this a leader that's unwilling to change. And he said Kevin said I agree. You've got to work with the willing whether it's at the bottom at the middle or at the top.
Doug: [00:12:37] I know my grandfather said quality starts in the boardroom and I've heard many people say unless you're at the top it's not worth doing. I disagree because you're not always going to get the person at the top right off the bat.
Doug: [00:12:52] I believe that every single person in every single organization has some sphere of influence they can impact and ultimately that's what I did when I started out working just out of college I had leaders who are fantastic people but they really didn't want to change because what they were doing at the time was working well I started out as an assistant to an assistant but I realized that I could use my grandfather's ideas and thinking to improve the areas that I had some influence over in time. It had a real impact and people started noticing that this guy did something really interesting and different what it enabled me to do was to move up the organization. Eventually those who are willing to learn the new way of thinking and applying it can end up being in charge of that leader was unwilling to learn or to change. I mean that he's got it. Tripp Kevin's got it.
Doug: [00:13:54] We can't wait. We can't wait for the leader to get it. We can't wait for the leader to retire. We got to find the willing get started and let it grow from there and that's the purpose of Driving Eureka! book Driving Eureka podcast. Every talk that I do every class that we teach it's let's find the willing and let's get started.
Tripp: [00:14:15] You know it's interesting. Is as I read through here I reflect on some of the clients that I've had in the past and there are groups of them that did really great things with with the Deming philosophy and then there is also their reflections and failures. You know I'm on my part but there are people that do as you're trying to change the thinking that appear to be getting it and then the fruits of what happens later you start to find out that they were really kind of. I can't think of a better word for it right now but frauds. In essence you know they kind of went through the motions. They they say that they're they buy in from a change. How do you have you run into that before. As far as people that do start to work with you think they they got it. And then they're not really committed they're just kind of there. I don't know how else to.
Doug: [00:15:18] Yeah that's right that's right. There are people who will do that and then you try to teach them and if they don't get it you move on. Let's move on. I mean I don't dwell on it. I just don't dwell on it. If you're willing to learn. I will make you amazing things. You won't have a breakthrough that transforms your industry change the company. No problem. OK. No problem. I mean I can do that. You want to learn how to become incredibly good at this. No problem. Now if you don't want to do it then no problem on my part either because I'm moving on. OK. I've been doing this 40 years and you're not going to change people. People choose to change. Oh yeah. I can't change it. I think too many trainers think they can go in and basically do a mental lobotomy to people. It's never going to happen never ever. The person changes when they're ready to change. That's it. It's as simple as that.
Tripp: [00:16:11] Yeah I think in the harder ones are when they think they've changed in and essence by the fruits of what they do. You can tell that they haven't. People that I went up working with for for years and then found out later that they were. Well you know I get a big bonus if I do this. But we've talked about this. It's the wrong thing. So anyway. OK. Well that's.
Tripp: [00:16:35] Yeah that makes sense is as far as being able to change in the sphere of influence that you have or you move on. I mean that's right. Kind of kind of the choices that you have associated with it. But are you are you are you true to it. Sometimes I always wonder whether I stay to true to it.
Tripp: [00:16:58] This is the Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy podcasts where we will take you behind the scenes so you can see what it takes to build a whiskey distillery business Eureka ranch team led by Doug Hall are creating a craft Whiskey Company with patented technology like has never been done before
Tripp: [00:17:21] Ok well let's talk about the Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy. Change your mind to transform your business. So how are you using change.
Tripp: [00:17:31] I mean it's pretty obvious you guys are put in the last episode we talked about failures and that's certainly a type of change. So it's one of the things that happens when you have change is you. You're also gonna have failures associated with it and because you're pushing the edges so are. How are you using change in the Brain Brew whiskey.
Doug: [00:17:52] Well this is inspired by the keynote talk at the craft spirits Association up in Minneapolis recently. The opening keynote was a guy who makes snowboards and his whole the gist of his story was he tried to sell through the normal distribution channels his innovative snowboards and he tried that whole process and he had massive failure. And then he changed the game. He started doing them custom. He started selling them direct.
Doug: [00:18:23] And his whole message was You can't use the same playbook as the multinational conglomerates. You can't do it you know. And and he was trying to get these people to do it. And sadly his message fell on totally deaf ears. Because so many craft spirit companies are interested and in fact they're embedding it in following the rules and thinking about how they make whiskey the same way it's been done for generations. You know Johnny's Jim's and Jack's whiskeys. Those companies have systemic advantages. You can't beat you can't compete with them. You can't play through the three tier distribution system for the rest. You can't do that. You've got to come up with how you're going to make money. And what's your system for doing it and you got to change the rules and that means a transformation of the business and a transformation of your mindset. And in it comes from. In this case here with crafting there's nobody you can look to except the founder and the leader of this thing is you've got a vision on how you're going to do something different then than others. You know in our case mastering Wood is our playbook.
Doug: [00:19:42] I mean we are about becoming the absolute best at managing the alcohol wood relationship. I think it's probably fair to say we know more about that relationship than everybody else in the world combined. Just because we've run you know too close to 3000 experiments now we've just done more experiments than anybody else knows and we we understand a lot more of this because we can and we are incredibly focused. And so if you like it finishing with different woods and you like to have different flavors and tastes we can create amazing things for you. That's ours. Now other people we work with. You know we encourage them to do it that way. And as I've said before you know we had a guy just recently said Can I have your paddle wheel bourbon. I go No that's my product. And he says Well well but I just want to sell it. I said no. Do something original create your vision. I'll work with you. I'll help you. We're called Brain brew custom whiskey. We're not Brain Brew stock whiskey we're custom whiskey.
Doug: [00:20:44] We will sell you a customized whiskey to your specifications at a fair price that you can bottle and sell in your marketplace and and that is like being it blows people's brains out because they're just so used to thinking well if I just do something that just like Johnny Jim and Jacks whiskey I'll have something. Well now you're just going to have another mass market mediocre whiskey to be by and I'm not doing them. It just it is what it is. They're just cheap whiskies. All three of them in their categories.
Tripp: [00:21:19] So what was the outcome then of this. These people are they are they going to try and craft their own.
Doug: [00:21:26] Interestingly there were two partners. OK. There were two partners sitting at the table. OK. And one was a chemist. And the other one is is is a manufacturing guy. So there kind of wasn't even a marketing person in the room really. It was one is sort of a chemist a scientist and one is a production person. And interestingly the chemist surprisingly was like I totally get that. It's like the scientist in him of discovering something new or something. Got it. And he swayed swayed the other partner.
Tripp: [00:22:02] So are they going to do it.
Doug: [00:22:03] Yeah yeah yeah yeah. I mean he said on the way he says we're going to do business we're gonna make this work.
Tripp: [00:22:08] Thank you. Interesting. Are they going to. Are they going to bring you in to help. Well I'm just going to try it on their own.
Doug: [00:22:16] Well. Well they can't. I mean. I mean the equipment's ridiculously expensive. What we've got. So now we're going to do it together. Yeah. OK I'm your partner.
Tripp: [00:22:24] Cool. So. So when you look at some of these other ones you know when you talked about Jack and you know Jimmy and all those guys will you think they'll ever make the change or do you think that they're just smug. Well you know I we're making money doing what we're doing or what. What's your thought there.
Doug: [00:22:50] Well I think I think the same as what's happened with Budweiser and Miller and all the rest of them. You know bourbon is hot right now so they're doing fine whiskey is hot right now so they're doing fine.
Doug: [00:23:01] And so way they'll play with old few little fake you know craft washing things that look craft but aren't really craft they'll play with a little bit of that stuff but you know they've got a juggernaut. They've got a machine that makes a lot of money. And by the way that's fine. That leaves the other market for crazy people like us. OK. It's beer all over beer. Beer is going to happen all over again.
Tripp: [00:23:23] So we have. So what happens Doug like every other industry unless you're Amazon obviously they were able to kind of keep it keep it separate and you're still kind of you know you're growing but the Jack comes along says OK we'll buy it.
Doug: [00:23:38] And some will sell. And then those products historically what's happened is this is will then kill them because they go into the system. I mean let's face it most corporate acquisitions never work out. Yes you know. So you know though they'll milk it for a while every now and then they'll get lucky. But most of them will fail because the heart and soul that made that thing what it is the mindset that came from that will die. Mm hmm. And that's the cycle of life. And then the entrepreneur will drink umbrella drinks down on the beaches. Then they'll decide they'll do it again. And then they'll say
Tripp: [00:24:16] Well I just you know and I look kind of at your history because I know you remember I remember you telling the story of I think it was a kind of polling business that you had at one point you wound up selling it and you remember your comment and there was always sell when you're not trying to sell. I guess I could do it. And if people are.
Doug: [00:24:36] And then I went back and after a number years I invented a even smarter system which is a truth ruthless system so you know I mean that's just life. I mean in this case here I built the distillery is right here my house we're on 80 acres here with a private lake in that just east of Cincinnati.
Doug: [00:24:52] And so the distillery is you know in the lot right beside my house and and everything's right here so I put it here because I I this is not for sale. I intend to do this because there's just a lot of fun to do. And there's just so many different things that we can do with it that I just really enjoy it. Now could somebody come around and do something. Yeah. Pop that's always possible but it's highly unlikely in this case because this is just too much fun. I have too much to do with this. Now ten years from now who knows. But but right now my intent is to do this to help enable other craft distilleries around the world to be able to do amazing things.
Tripp: [00:25:31] Ok but you don't see because of the nature of at least the way I listen to the words that you say when you talk about some of the you know big company it's the big spirits companies that they're not going to get this that they're they they think they might be by trying different things but you don't think they're going to.
Doug: [00:25:50] Well we we've got you know we have a pot. We have a wonderful partnership with Edrington. It's a non-profit trust to the benefit of the children of Scotland. They make the Macallan and others and so we have a partnership with them which is a very wonderful wonderful partnership. And we make products for them. And that's all the big companies in Canada and they're good. These guys are way better than most because I know all the different big players. Well you've worked with them over a long time. Yeah I've taught over 20 years and so. So they're just wonderful people. They're just just just great people. So we work with them and that's enough you know. And so then we go work with others. So but mostly with small people that that's that's where it's fun because that's where we can do crazier stuff and learn things together.
Tripp: [00:26:36] Okay. All right well let's talk about this week's craft whiskey cocktail which is the Italian Manhattan which if that name came up before I think it one of the other drinks that I can't remember the context now and I think yeah we've done it we've done some different Manhattan so.
Doug: [00:26:55] So Manhattan is the classic Hardy drink suite removed and rye. It's a drink of old men in you. I'm going to have a Manhattan or it's got a manliness to it you know.
Doug: [00:27:08] And so the idea of changing your mind. We've flipped it on its ear to make it lighter cleaner and fresher. And we did this by taking lemon cello which is an Italian liqueur. Where do you use just the Peel not the white pith but just the peel. You soak it into high alcohol solution and it comes the there's no juice in it when you do it properly and in it and then you add some sugar to it and it's very light fresh and so mixing.
Doug: [00:27:47] An ounce of lemon cello with.
Doug: [00:27:50] All right in this case rye deckhand rye some ice and stir it and it just gives a brightness so a way to think of this as it's it's a good spring Manhattan or when we want to have some spring in the dark months to bring some lightness and brightness to our sort of more whiskey forward cocktails.
Tripp: [00:28:11] And so looking at that I guess I'd not really had the lemon lemon cello or Ali say that I know of no point of order and drink that might have had it before. Are there other drinks that that contain that I would assume so.
Doug: [00:28:25] Oh yeah there's all kinds of things we've got two or three of them actually that we do. But this this gives us it's just fun. It's a really fun light kind of thing for you to try.
Tripp: [00:28:36] So is it from four people that drink the classic Manhattan than the day. This would be a natural different yeah.
Doug: [00:28:44] I mean what we've done is we've taken the sweet remove and and put it in a sweet lemon flavor. Okay. So the carrot the body of the drink is the same body that you'd have in Manhattan. It's just instead of the vermouth you're getting LEMON Okay. And and and so and and a brightness I just I mean that's the best way I can say it. It just has a brightness to it.
Tripp: [00:29:10] All right. And then the deck hand is your five wood rye.
Doug: [00:29:14] Yes that's right. Ninety five percent rye FIBROIDS IN IT THREE OAKS maple and cherry. And so it's just got a stupid complexity to it. And so that complexity gives a good base upon which to bring the lemon with it.
Tripp: [00:29:33] Okay. We talked a couple episodes ago about the you know the problem the promise and the proof. What is what is the proof of the deck hand.
Doug: [00:29:40] It's the five woods. It's a five to five wood. Okay. All right. And the proof is is you know using those five different woods which was interesting as we were going into a competition and I was messing with different things and I was with a buddy of mine Tim Hogan and while the night had gone on for some time as one would say.
Tripp: [00:30:06] Say no more.
Doug: [00:30:07] And at one point I said I said we were tasting different woods and you know individual samples. And I said I wonder what the hell happens if we mix some of these. And while one thing led to another and next thing you know there were five Woods added to it. I go What do you think of that. He's damn that's pretty good. And so we mixed up some others I put it in a bottle I said well let's try it tomorrow. Maybe as a first drink. The next morning we tasted it and we gave it to our wives we're staying over their house and we gave it to their wives and they went ahead. That's pretty good. And thus was born. It's also known as the working man's rye right as it because the deckhands of course were the working men on the on the riverboats. And so it sort of celebrates them and it's the kind of drink that bartenders really like because bartenders generally tend to like a rye rye generally will have 48 percent alcohol by volume as opposed to 40 percent for many whiskeys or 45 for bourbons.
Doug: [00:31:10] So it's gonna be a little bit higher. It's gonna be a more whiskey forward thing it's not for newbies but it makes it really stands up to just about any cocktail you're going to do and the five words really just give you a complexity that it's really really quite nice compared to summarize can have a bit of a bite to them. And this this has got a smoothness and it's just a stupid complexity to it.
Tripp: [00:31:36] Yeah it's interesting I'm finding I like I'm kind of gauging my taste and I seem to like the ryes a little bit better than the others. I'm not sure why but it seems to kind of fit my fit fit what my what my tastes are. But I mean well.
Doug: [00:31:52] The more you drink them the more you drink. And that's not uncommon. Okay so every Friday night when I get your your your text messages the more you drink them the more you're gonna tend to go.
Doug: [00:32:06] But I would encourage you to also go back though because the even just Keel boat are easy drinking product and there are there are cocktails that are still better with that than they are with rye rye. Okay. Yeah yeah. It's just it depends on the taste. Depends on what we're trying to do.
Tripp: [00:32:24] And apparently the cocktail that you have out there. So so one question I have I need you. We talk about your Deckhand you're tall stacks and your keel boat and the paddle wheel on all those types of things and you've already stated that it's pretty much local to Cincinnati but if somebody is going through Cincinnati it's the only place to get it. Is that you're at your place in Newtown or are you starting to distribute it through local liquor stores or.
Doug: [00:32:51] Through the spring we'll get it into the local liquor stores.
Tripp: [00:32:53] Okay. Okay.
Doug: [00:32:54] I mean look at liquor stores and there is there's some conversation we may go to a couple of other states out. I haven't decided yet but we've had some people approach us about bringing it into some other states and some some other things. So it was designed totally to be a su ultra local. That's one of the things I recommend to craft people is do an ultra local product that's where you've got the leverage against other people.
Doug: [00:33:18] And so it really is made to celebrate Cincinnati which was as you know I mean like 80 percent of the whiskey was coming from around this area but this was the home of American whiskey pre prohibition 80 distilleries in Cincinnati alone like it was not a beer town it was a whiskey town. I mean the value of spirits that went out was like five or seven times or something like that the amount of beer even though it was a German population. This was this is a whiskey town is what it is and that's what we're hoping to bring back.
Tripp: [00:33:48] Very good. Well one last question I have for you and I'm not sure exactly how it works I'm just gonna ask the question for I'm sure probably 90 percent of the audience probably already knows the answer but so so is is whiskey. I mean I know you like for instance Indiana is a weird state. So I'm not gonna use that as an example but can you order online and get it get whiskey delivered or the rules against that or what you know this rules.
Doug: [00:34:15] There's a Supreme Court case that may change that wine. Got it broken. But when they overturn prohibition they put the authority into the States. And so each state has its own rules. And so there is not it is not. There is a few states where you can buy stuff or there's some online people who basically what they basically do is give you a thing and they have a local retailer in the state that that mails it inside state lines doesn't go over state lines and there are retailers who illegally will ship to you.
Doug: [00:34:52] You know I'm just acknowledging it not supporting it but as a general rule you cannot buy whiskey or spirits of any type in order to them across state lines. It would view it. There's like four states where you can do it if you register in the States but it's really not something that's able to do the general system that people use. And again I'm not condoning it. I'm just reporting what I've observed is that they'll get a friend who's near the area and I'll have them get one and send it to them is is I I've heard stories of people doing that. But again that's not that's not the way it's supposed to be. You're not supposed to do that.
Tripp: [00:35:31] What if what if you're driving through the city. That's fine. That's totally fine. All right. OK. So what's the Supreme Court case. Is this something you're following or.
Doug: [00:35:43] Yeah yeah. So it's a Total Wine case. Tennessee says that they can't open up a retail outlet unless they've lived there for 10 years or 15 years or something like that. And that's in front of the Supreme Court. And this has to do with. Does. So what what you got in the Constitution and I'm not an expert at this but there's a contradiction in the Constitution between the commerce clause that says there's gonna be free trade across states and alcohol which the states can regulate.
Doug: [00:36:13] And so the question is you know basically the amendment to the Constitution contradicts the commerce clause. And and so you know eventually this has got to get resolved. And they did resolve it for wine but they only mentioned wine they didn't mention spirits which is why you can oftentimes buy wine across but even then some states say you can't. And then eventually they get challenged in court and gets overturned sometimes so. So it's long term this is gonna get resolved. It's just a matter of time same in Canada. Canada had a case they thought it was going to do it. Their Supreme Court punted on the issue. Eventually there will be an opening of this stuff you know a crossed and a mechanism because right now the states make a lot of money on booze and I think primarily the biggest thing is going to be is making it possible for the states to collect their money when it's shipped in. And you know I this it it will be I would be surprised if five years or indefinitely 10 years from now if this is still the case I think it's going to happen quite quite broadly. You're going to be able to get it in most other countries you can ship. We just happen to have a kind of a frankly a backwards system. You know it was done to protect people the three tier system and all these things it was done to protect people from staffing and there's people that lobby a lot. But the pressures on this are are severe and and you know the question is is it in the public interest honestly. And the reality is no it's not.
Tripp: [00:37:49] So would you would you find. So for instance says the growth of these craft whiskey companies come around. I would think there would be even more pressure to to open it up and that the big ones would probably say now is that kind of where the battle lines have some some.
Doug: [00:38:06] But it's mostly the distributors. It's mostly the distributors that will fight that. The three tier system the other one so you can do it more so than the manufacturers. Okay. I mean it's really the distributors who you know right now have a hammerlock on it so that you get to go through them. So I understand it. I mean it is what it is. They built a business on it and you know and they they risk money and stuff at the beginning I I respect all of that stuff. But at the same time I am you know I'm for free trade whether it be from here to Indiana or here to London.
Tripp: [00:38:42] Well in Indiana just got Sunday liquor sales a year ago. So I don't plan on big change in Indiana. We are going to be leading that charge a little bit a little bit. Just that just a tad. So yeah I was a big celebration to get Sunday. Sunday liquor sales in Indiana which was it's so bizarre. But anyway OK. All right.
Tripp: [00:39:07] Well interesting change change in the whiskey business. Try to.
Doug: [00:39:14] Change the mindset. Change or I play by your rules not others
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